Request a topic

Request for a DBMS forum

janpieter — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 14:48:07 GMT

I'd like a forum devoted to DBMS issues, for anyone who implements databases occasionally. For example, a nice discussion about materialized views. ;)

Or is there a place already for this kind of discussions?

Promoting and Selling ORM/FOM

Gordon Everest — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:13:29 GMT

We need a forum topic on how to promote non-record-based data modeling schemes, such as ORM or FOM. I remember that we had an extended discussion about this at the Portugal workshop (2007). The question before us: What is the vision for ORM/FOM and how can we make the world aware of this clearly superior scheme for capturing and representing the conceptual model of a business. Some people were going to work on this and report back but I don't recall that anything came out of this. We need a sales strategy, an elevator speech, examples of how we can promote/sell what we have. The forum could be a place to post ideas, suggestions, successes,etc. We lament the fact that most data modelers don't know about ORM and the support tools available. If they have heard of it, their information is usually incomplete and incorrect. Most practicing data architect/modeling professionals think they are doing a good job. They think that relational, or maybe the broader ER is the way to go. They don't even conceive of there being a much better way to do data modeling, or should we say, to model a business IN DATA, and all its business rules. I despair when I try to convince data modelers that there is a better way, than what is currently practiced around most of the world. We fall into the trap of modeling for our current DBMSs (which are predominantly relational). The world cries for a simplified, high-level, enterprise conceptual model, thinking that a conceptual model is simply an abstract relational model with the detail hidden. Nothing could be further from the truth. Terry has is right in calling ORM a conceptual model. The conceptual model needs to model the world as the business users see it, still in all its detail. If that is too big and complex, then you present abstractions of it. The difference is one of presentation, not of modeling.

Well we have all probably heard this before, but we need to get serious about it. I am rolling out my ORM course to the world but that is just one effort. If I can get a data modeling person for a few hours at the beginning of the class, they become convinced. All my students get it right. We need a place to share ideas and do something to promote ORM/FOM.

set up a new forum entitled "Educational Opportunities" or some such

Gordon Everest — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:39:21 GMT

We need to list educational opportunities somewhere on this site. Particularly, where to learn more about ORM. I would like to post information about my online Advanced Database Design class which focuses on ORM. It could, perhaps, be listed under workshops and conferences, although that title should probably be broadened to include extended or ongoing opportunities to learn. In fact, perhaps the overall title of the section could be educational opportunities, which would include workshops, conferences, and courses.

Model THIS!

OrionB — Thu, 06 May 2010 13:20:12 GMT

I love modelling stuff with ORM. I often find myself visiting these forums, looking for something I can hone my modelling skills on, posting a diagram of what I think the poster described.

The forums aren't all that lively, currently. It seems a good portion of the posts tend to follow the pattern of "I see This, Here, but think it should be Something Else" (or "I See This, Here, what does it mean?") followed by a reply by one of our resident Wise Ones telling why it is so, whether there are plans to change it, or what the thing means.

Something I would enjoy is a section where a poster can describe a small scenario, and others can add how they might model it and ask the questions left ambiguous by the description. This would help me keep my skills sharp, and perhaps even increase them - both in writing down the scenarios with as few ambiguities as possible and in turning the stuff added by others into a diagram with questions.

The section title could be: "Model THIS!"

Its purpose would be to help ORM practitioners hone their skills, helping them be better able to support the application process with a rock-solid diagram for it to be built with.

(will reply soon with an initial Universe of Discourse to model)

Data Mapping Diagrams for Data Warehouse Design with ORM

EmmanuelCarydis — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:07:34 GMT

There is a paper on Data Mapping Diagrams for Data Warehouse Design with UML refer http://www.springerlink.com/content/rtbn1f28w9k30r7k/

Is there anything similar for ORM?

I've basically found ORM superior in this area because of its low level granularity.

Open Source Models

Tyler Young — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 17:37:55 GMT

Most people who use this site are working on proprietary systems that they can't share with other people, but I wonder about having an area where people can post their data models and get feedback from other users. NORMA doesn't currently support the use of external models, but maybe if we had a community library of common models then we could be ready for when that does happen. In my current consulting projects, there's no reason to keep the models themselves private. There's no "secret sauce" that a thousand sites haven't copied. The difference is that I'm using ORM instead of pre-packaged databases. In the long term, this could be a part of the forum that helps codify techniques for driving application development from conceptual models.

ORM2 Metamodel

Josue Portal — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:41:00 GMT

Hi, What is the most accepted ORM2 metamodel? Thanks,

Create a forum for sharing ideas about the new ORM LITE modeling tool

BrianC — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 01:44:46 GMT

Proposed Forum Title: ORM LITE

Scope: Sharing ideas about the new ORM LITE modeling tool.

How it relates to ORM:
ORM LITE is a new, light-weight, open-source ORM tool that implements most of the ORM 2 notation. ORM LITE was created to help popularize ORM. It is open source software, so it can be shared at no cost. It is completely self contained, so it is easy to install. It is cross-platform, working on Windows, Macintosh, Linux, and Unix. When users are ready to upgrade to an industrial strength tool, NORMA is recommended.

Why the ORM community will find it of interest
Members of the ORM community would like to see a greater demand for ORM. The preview release of ORM LITE is packaged as an add-in to the GanttPV open source project scheduling tool. Because GanttPV is downloaded about 100 times per day, this strategy will put an ORM tool into the hands of 100 new project managers each day. As more project managers learn about ORM, more teams will adopt it. ORM LITE includes a brief introduction to ORM and points users to the ORM Foundation web site for more information.

ORM LITE is scriptable. It is hoped that ORM practitioners will be interested in using ORM LITE to develop and test new ORM related algorithms. For example, the preview release contains a partial implementation of Rmap (the script is included and can be modified as desired). An implementation of a UML mapping algorithm is in the works.

ORM LITE works with the GanttPV Server. This makes it easy to share models among team members. Model changes are tracked and can be shared via the server.

The preview release of ORM LITE is available at http://pureviolet.net/ganttpv/orm/index/

ORM style

Brian Nalewajek — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:46:14 GMT

Now may not be the time, but I hope you'll consider a forum on Object Role Modeling style, at some point. As the base of the forum posts increases, I expect we'll see more questions and comments, not about right or wromg ways of modeling, but on more or less useful ways. Subtopics might include things like the number of elements to include in a page, where and how best to use sample populations, how best to model aspects that are likely to change frequently, etc....

There are things that violate ORM theory, the syntax and grammar of a standard, or the dictates of an ORM tool; but that still leaves a lot of room for style choices. If someone has come up with an elegant solution to a common modeling problem, it would be great to have a place to share it.

If such a forum would work better if/when feature changes are made to the OF infrastructure, I don't see harm in the delay.

Thanks,

BRN..

Richmond

VictorMorgante — Thu, 29 May 2008 23:52:57 GMT

Hi Ken,

Your proposal was to leave nORMa at the top of the Tools Forum, and have 'Other' as alternative. I accepted that.

This morning, when I log in, I find nORMa and COGNiam, and Other.

Is it at all possible that there is a natural bias towards these two software packages, that is now reflected in the site?

Of course, I agree that more forums can't be added for technological reasons by way of pacifying. For want of sheer will, if there was.

I think your readership is wise Ken, and if the site shows bias, then it loses relevance. And it's not fair on the ORM community. We're just not that dumb.

It's no disrespect to Halpin or Nijssen to say that it does their tools no good service by actively promoting theirs to the discount of others. Where is the benefit in that? Where is it, that this is not bias? or 'marketing' as you put it.

It's your site, but it drops a notch in 'relevance' (in my opinion) if there is no focus on standards as above 'tools', and where tools aren't treated equally and on merit.

Perhaps it's an innocent oversite. I'd need evidence of that.

I remain, yours and with
Best regards

Victor Morgante

Viev

Richmond

VictorMorgante — Wed, 28 May 2008 05:05:24 GMT

Hi Ken,

We're just wondering if Richmond can have a Forum topic under 'Tools'.

Richmond is our ORM offering which is taking shape rather rapidly now.

For anyone reading this who has ever developed a graphical conceptual modeling tool from the ground up (and I know many in this forum fit this bill), you'd know that it is extremely hard work, and I liken it to climbing Mt Everest and just as plodding (not that I've climbed Mt E, but I've watched enough videos to draw the comparison).

We want to provide regular updates on our progress, share in discussions on the ORM meta-model, and invite forum readers if they would like to participate in our Beta-Test programme. i.e. like any 'expedition' our morale isn't built in solitary, it's drawn by feeback and inclusion of beneficiaries of the expedition and the greater community.

It's early days, but we've just broken the back of FactTypes and (from experience building Niam+)...that is about the most complex and challenging structure in a greater ORM model (from a GUI/event model perspective).

Here's a quick video of dealing with Ternary FactTypes, and rapid allocation of (internal) Uniqueness Constraints....

http://www.viev.com/resources/videos/VideoOrmFoundation3.htm

For those interested, we've given our commitment to Dr Halpin that we will deliver an ORM v2.0 compliant tool, and in essense, we are very gladdened that ORM has a strong 'community' with an overwhelming strong 'good-will' that we would like to think will keep standards tight. This is a great achievement, owing much to the hard work of the ORM advocates, and indeed...this site. We aspire to match that high standard.

Anyway Ken, this is a long term commitment for my company. We have a strong track record of delivering, so vapour-ware is not something we even think about. If you believe it'd be okay to have Richmond in the line up and we can start doing our bit, and getting feedback, that'd be great. We'd really appreciate it.

Best regards

Victor

Viev

Philosophy

VictorMorgante — Sun, 11 May 2008 22:53:26 GMT

Hi Ken,

Would it be possible to have a Forum called 'Philosophy' under 'Research'.

It's just that a couple of us want to discuss the Philosophy of ORM in an open Forum, and believe this site to be a good place to do that.

Best regds
Victor

Literature

Jos Bol — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:44:16 GMT

It would be nice to have a forum for discussing the available literature on ORM/NIAM/etc. to able to concentrate all the questions and remarks on the books for others to read.

Talking about books: The front page mentions that the new book of Terry Halpin will be released in april 2008, but Amazon lists it as already available. My copy of the book has actually been shipped already.

http://www.amazon.com/Information-Modeling-Relational-Databases-Second/dp/0123735688/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205170023&sr=8-1

Open Letters

VictorMorgante — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:34:28 GMT

As an open forum, and with an intent to further the knowledge, insight and future development of ORM, I was wondering if it is possible to have an 'Open Letters'. An 'Open Letters' section (as opposed an 'Open Forum') would be a forum to ask questions that probe the boundaries of research and development.

Further, if in answering these questions, there is errata of other related outcomes, then I believe there is value in a reciprocating 'Revisions and Errata' section within the 'Library'.

As most of the work presented in the Library is 'bleeding edge', I feel it would be quite normal to accept that from time to time visions will be suitably challenged, and sometimes changed. Ideas will be reviewed, and work corrected.

I'd see great merrit in having a forum and library section that allows for all of that.