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  • Re: To Null or not to Null. That is the question!

    Well said! Thanks, Mr. Darwen!
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Andy Carver on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: To Null or not to Null. That is the question!

    Just to say that I don't mind being called a relational purist.  After all, I can hardly deny it.  I claim, of course, that a "relationally pure" language, if well-designed by all other criteria of good language design, will be of more practical use than one that is impure (like SQL) and also well-designed by all other ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by hughdarwen on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: Modeling based an existence chain

    Hi Ken, Well, I'm not enough of a Star Wars buff to know what you mean by "Yoda language". But perhaps the following is another example... You wrote: "Well, I did not infer that from Marc's description but you may be right on this point.However, my purpose was not to present an accurate model of Marc's domain (I agree ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Andy Carver on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: To Null or not to Null. That is the question!

    Hi Ken, If it matters, I still think Clifford's terminology is less problematic: First, "purist" does not necessarily carry any negative connotation. I doubt that Mr. Date would object to the characterisation of himself as a relational purist; in fact, I think he'd happily agree with the characterisation.    ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Andy Carver on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: To Null or not to Null. That is the question!

    [quote user="Andy Carver"]P.S. So I don't appear too biased for some people's tastes, I offer up an additional link, which at least gives both sides equal time -- in the persons of Messers Date and Codd:[/quote]  Hi Andy, Thanks for this. I will defer my response until I have read the 2010 book "Database ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Ken Evans on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: To Null or not to Null. That is the question!

    [quote user="Andy Carver"]You complained about Clifford's use of the term "relational purist", and preferred us to use the term "relational conformist". I demur. I think Clifford's term is somewhat more accurate.[/quote]  Hi Andy, Again I confess to a lack of rigour in my use of language. For ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Ken Evans on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: Modeling based an existence chain

    Hi Andy, Thanks for pointing out my "Yoda Speak" (Ahhh the joys of natural language!) To be clear, my point is as follows: An object-role model should be designed in such a way that it minimises the risk of nulls appearing in the physical database that is based on the object-role model. My example was intended to illustrate this ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Ken Evans on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: Modeling based an existence chain

    [quote user="Clifford Heath"]whereas the others involve "Claimant works for Organization which is in Country"; i.e. two joined binaries. If the latter model is correct, then Ken's ER model is not normalized, because of the FD of Country on Organization[/quote]  Hi Clifford, That's a very good point. I just shows ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Ken Evans on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: Modeling based an existence chain

    Hi Ken You write that "My purpose was to illustrate the principle of how Marc's domain could be modeled in a way that does not require the use of nulls at the conceptual level." Ah... that's certainly different than how you characterized your purpose before.    But given your new characterization of your purpose, ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Andy Carver on Tue, May 24 2011
  • Re: Modeling based an existence chain

    Hi Andy, It would appear that we base our respective uses of ORM on different philosophical foundations. My approach is based on the following principles (inter alia) 1: Words are just symbols(collections of one or more characters) without any intrinsic meaning. From this perspective, your implied assertion that I have "used the wrong ...
    Posted to ORM Techniques (Forum) by Ken Evans on Tue, May 24 2011
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